Differences

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--- research [2022/08/05 16:06] – [To Do] mtbtimeline
+++ research [2025/02/07 16:38] (current) – mtbtimeline
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   * **Saturn**: The 1982 Long Beach Bike show lists as one of the mt. bike exhibitors as the Cupertino Bike Shop and their Saturn bike.  As [[https://mmbhof.org/mtn-bike-hall-of-fame/history/john-finley-scott/|JFS]] and the CBS purchased 110 Ritcheys in 1979 (!), was this  a rebranded Ritchey?  Where did those frames go?  Saturn was likely John Padgett out of Davis (where JFS lived) who mostly did road bikes. [[http://www.classicrendezvous.com/USA/SATURN_cycles.htm|saturn info]].  Padgett did some work with Ritchey.  See: [[http://www.vintagemtbworkshop.com/1980-ritchey-mountain-bikes-a.html?fbclid=IwAR2iGJHG1XOM09dAi2_XTx6Kb1m1mzbeiwc2oTaldpQSf-36sZPZSpnKQac|vintagemtnbikeworkshop]]
   * **Chris Pauley**: Worked with Chris King and exhibited at the 1982 Long Beach show.  Produced no mt. bikes until at least 1984?  Called "Tierra"?
-  * **R&E Cycles**: by Angel Rodriguez.  At 1982 LB Show.  ??
-  * **Rock Creek Cycles** at 1982 LB Show.  Erik Sampson continues to make road bikes today: [[http://www.sampsonsports.com/contact-us/|sampsonsports]] - but no hint of ever having made mountain bikes.
   * **Conley** Bicycles.  A few show up on ebay, but no mention other than "Anyone have info on Conley Bikes?".  [[https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vintage/1213957-conley-alpine-mountain-bike.html|example]].  {{unknown:conley.jpg?60|Conley Alpine}}
   * **Proteus**: Super influential DIY frame builder group.  More [[http://www.classicrendezvous.com/USA/Proteus.htm|info here.]] They made a few mountain bikes, such as this 1985 example: {{unknown:proteus.jpg?60|Proteus}}
-  * **Otis Guy**: Influential frame builder - but no pics of any 1983 or 1984 bikes.  The oldest frame number I can find is this [[https://www.mtbr.com/threads/1985-otis-guy-fillet-brazed-custom-056.984178/|1985 #56]].
-  * **Gecko Bicycles**: [[http://mombatbicycles.com/MOMBAT/BikeHistoryPages/Gecko.html|mombat]]: Well documented - but no pics of any early bikes.  Except w/people on them.  Very few made (10/yr at the start.)
   * **Meteor Lite**: UK BMX maker apparently made a very early British mountain bike.  Were more than one made?  1982 components.  Unique brake bridge.  No rear derailleur cable braze ons - they are strapped.   Perhaps aspects of a mountain bike prototype from a BMX maker.  Is this one of the earliest mountain bikes made in the UK?   {{unknown:meteor.jpg?60|Meteor Lite}} [[https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10166181809960078&set=gm.1876960369157411|facebook]]
-  * **Mounteo** : A very well sorted out frame - which is also unique.  The seat stays, fork, lugs are all unique to the timeline thus far.  Guessing it's a 1984-5 based upon the also unique use of SunTour ar gt II.  From [[https://www.ebay.com/itm/154886525036?hash=item1980|ebay]], so the link, from Washington state, won't last.  Absolutely no internet presence.  {{unknown:mounteo.jpg?60|mounteo}}
+  * **Mounteo** : A very well sorted out frame - which is also unique.  The seat stays, fork, lugs are all unique to the timeline thus far.  Guessing it's a 1984-5 based upon the also unique use of SunTour ar gt II.  From [[https://www.ebay.com/itm/154886525036|ebay]], so the link, from Washington state, won't last.  Absolutely no internet presence.  {{unknown:mounteo.jpg?60|mounteo}} [[https://www.ebay.com/itm/154886525036|ebay]].  Another example from [[https://www.facebook.com/groups/1501078173412301/user/1003332023/|facebook]] with 1985 date codes.
-  * **Liberia**: One time famous French brand, who supposedly, "In the early 1980s, Liberia was the first French company to manufacture mountain bikes, which it even exported to the United States. "  See: [[https://encycloduvelo-fr.translate.goog/biboud-liberia-cycles-liberia-cycles-vercors-cycles-edelveis-2/?_x_tr_sl=fr&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp|velovintageagogo]].  Which would place it <= 1982, as [[peugeot:start|Peugeot]] came out in 1982 and Motebecane sold it's Mt. Becane in 1984.  The attached pic, house branded a Burdet but was made by Liberia.  Note that this has a derailleur paired with an internal hub (how?) giving it 6x3x3=54 speeds (!) using a 1984 Sachs-Huret Rider type 2.  So perhaps its not that old?  {{unknown:liberia.jpg?60|Liberia}}
+  * **Omni-Bike**: **//1981//**.  A nice, early BMX transition bike from Omni-Bike International.  Except that there's no evidence that such a company existed.  It's got some authentic touches: side-pull calipers, matching pump, BMX forks and a triple spring seat. {{unknown:omnibike.jpg?60|Omni-Bike}} [[https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10202573347308337&set=gm.10152389645992463|facebook]]
-  * **Scorpion**: Scorpion BMX tried their hand at a true MTB: non-BMX cantilevers, 26" wheels, decent gearing and even a snazzy head badge.  No other examples found. Possibly 1982.  {{unknown:scorpion.jpg?60|Scorpion}} {{unknown:scorp_badge.jpg?50|Scorpion}}
+  * **Vista Mountaineer**:  Other than a nice product placement in the 1984 Bicycling Magazine Buyer's Guide [[https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vintage/1207627-1984-buyers-guide-bicycling-magazine-part-1-major-production-bikes.html#&gid=1&pid=1|bikeforums]], not a hint exists that this MTB ever materialized.  {{bicyling_1984.jpg?30|1984 Buyer's Guide}}
+  * **Viga Round A Bout**: Two examples found thus far, a [[https://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=728582&p=95|1984]] and a likely [[https://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=250915|1985]].  Viga, Taiwan.  No internet presence whatsoever.  No trademarks, no Tawainese corporation.  {{viga_1984.jpg?60|1984 Viga}}
+  * **mystery bike**: High quality, northern California mystery circa 1980.  {{unknown.jpg?60|Unknown}}  [[https://www.facebook.com/groups/927406034014215/permalink/5692804074141030|facebook]]
+  * Various smaller European makers existed in the 80's and may have produced MTBs in the early 80s: **Kalkhoff** (Germany), **Helkama** (Finland), **Tunturi** (Finland)
+  * **Hunter Rowdy**: Not to be confused with [[https://www.huntercycles.com/|Hunter Cycles]], which started in 1993.  It's perhaps a one-off, or a modern recreation - but too many parts seem authentic.  {{unknown:hunter.jpg?60}}  [[https://www.facebook.com/groups/239184514198810/permalink/885103496273572/|facebook]]
 ===== To Ignore =====
@@ Line 25: / Line 26: @@
   * **Procraft**: A Tawainese maker of BMX tried their hand at mountain bikes for perhaps a single year (1984?)?  See: {{procraft:1984.jpg?60}}.
   * **Colorado Bicycle Co**:  Made a "Roughrider" according to Fat Tire Flyer #13 (v3 n2), page 7.  No internet presence whatsoever.  Probably related to [[http://www.vintagemtbworkshop.com/don-mcclung-bike-photos.html|Don McClung]] who made mostly one-speed cruisers.
 ===== Solved =====
@@ Line 46: / Line 49: @@
   * **[[fmsa:start|FMSA]]**: A BMX maker who made a few mt. bikes.  No info to be found other than a lone craigslist listing, which looks like a 1983/4, with faux TA cranks & bi-plane fork: [[https://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/bik/d/santa-rosa-fmsucalifornia-vintage-mtb/7322097658.html|craigslist]]  {{unknown:fmsa.jpg?60|FMSA}}
     * **//solved//**: The lone example was enough to include this über obscure brand, especially as it has an interesting [[db:start|Diamond Back]] connection.
+  * **[[otis:start|Otis Guy]]**: Influential frame builder - but no pics of any 1983 or 1984 bikes.  The oldest frame number I can find is this [[https://www.mtbr.com/threads/1985-otis-guy-fillet-brazed-custom-056.984178/|1985 #56]].
+    * **//solved//**: There's probably a 1982 out there somewhere, but for now, there are enough examples to start in 1983.
+  * **[[liberia:start|Liberia]]**: One time famous French brand, who supposedly, "In the early 1980s, Liberia was the first French company to manufacture mountain bikes, which it even exported to the United States. "  See: [[https://encycloduvelo-fr.translate.goog/biboud-liberia-cycles-liberia-cycles-vercors-cycles-edelveis-2/?_x_tr_sl=fr&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp|velovintageagogo]].  Which would place it <= 1982, as [[peugeot:start|Peugeot]] came out in 1982 and Motebecane sold it's Mt. Becane in 1984.  The attached pic, house branded a Burdet but was made by Liberia.  Note that this has a derailleur paired with an internal hub (how?) giving it 6x3x3=54 speeds (!) using a 1984 Sachs-Huret Rider type 2.  So perhaps its not that old?  {{unknown:liberia.jpg?60|Liberia}} [[https://www-velovintageagogo-com.translate.goog/t3368-liberia-80-s?_x_tr_sl=fr&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp|velovintageagogo]]
+    * **//solved//**: A puzzling brand, helped by Good translate and lots of staring at old component catalogs.  There's more to research here.
+  * **[[gecko:start|Gecko Bicycles]]**: [[http://mombatbicycles.com/MOMBAT/BikeHistoryPages/Gecko.html|mombat]]: Well documented - but no pics of any early bikes.  Except w/people on them.  Very few made (10/yr at the start.)
+    * **//solved//**: A little digging showed that Ken Beach, the founder, is a prolific poster and collector of his own bikes.  [[https://www.mtbr.com/threads/ken-beach-gecko-vintage-seen-one.411463/|mtbr]] to the rescue.
+  * **R&E Cycles**: by Angel Rodriguez.  At 1982 LB Show.  ??
+    * **//solved//**: [[rne:start|R&E Cycles]].  This proved tricky as multiple brands circulated around Rodriguez & Erickson.
+  * **Scorpion**: Scorpion BMX tried their hand at a true MTB: non-BMX cantilevers, 26" wheels, decent gearing and even a snazzy head badge.  No other examples found. Possibly 1982.  {{unknown:scorpion.jpg?60|Scorpion}} {{unknown:scorp_badge.jpg?50|Scorpion}} [[https://www.facebook.com/groups/235433082462/permalink/10159289437747463/|facebook]]
+    * **//solved//**: [[scorpion:start|Scorpion BMX]].  A BMX only brand who very briefly tried to jump onto the MTB bandwagon.
+  * **Rock Creek Cycles** at 1982 LB Show.  Erik Sampson continues to make road bikes today: [[http://www.sampsonsports.com/contact-us/|sampsonsports]] - but no hint of ever having made mountain bikes.
+    * **//solved//**: [[rockcreek:start|Rock Creek Cycles]].  A single screenshot from Wende Cragg's [[https://theradavist.com/camera-corner-documentary-wende-cragg/|Camera Corner]] was all it too to connect the dots.
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